Curious Christian

Reflections on culture, nature, and spirituality from a Christian perspective

So What’s Da Story?

Published by

Matt Stone

2006-08-10

As John Kyneton seems determined to spamgelise me about cult leader Da Free John across the blogosphere I thought I’d be indulgent and create a legitimate space for discussion of Ja Free John and his teachings here.

This blog is after all about how Christian engage with other paths, so hopefully we can all learn from this. I do warn however John, that leaving links on other posts will not be considered legitimate from hereon in unless they are on topic. I am not a fan of monologues or propoganda and I ask you to respect that.

So firstly, John, I’d like to hear your story. What attracted you to Da Free John and his teachings? What do you find most appealing about his pathway? How do you see him in relation to Jesus? And how would you like to respond to Philip Johnson’s challenges about his cult tendencies and problems in his teachings?

Secondly, for my Christian readers, I would like to ask how many of you recognised John as a devotee of Da Free John, or indeed, know who Da Free John is? It’s been my observation that many non-Christians are begining to engage in the Emerging Church conversation. That’s good! But are we all aware where they are coming from? How do you thing we should respond? What do you see as potentially of value in Da Free John’s teachings (see John’s site here)? What would you critique? Do you see critique as having a legitimate in the Emerging Church conversation?

Finally, for my readers who are neither Christians nor Daists, what do you make of all this?

Tags Religion

3 responses to “So What’s Da Story?”

John

2006-08-12

Hi,its John from Kyneton Victoria.
I dont really have much to say about Avatar Adi Da Samraj and the Way of the Heart because all the necessary information is available on the internet. Why re-invent the wheel everytime?
This site 1. http://www.aboutadidam.org
gives a comprehensive elaboration of Adi Da’s “theory of everything”. It also contains links to all the other key sites which feature various aspects of Adi Da’s Divine Revelation and His Luminous Wisdom Teaching.
These two sites give a thorough explanation of Adi Da’s understanding of Jesus and Christianity,the religion ABOUT Jesus started by Paul and others
2. http://www.dabase.net/christian.htm
3. http://www.dabase.net/nirvana.htm
By the way the Dabase site is not mine.It was put up by an American devotee and contains a comprehensive selection of ALL of Adi Da’s key writings and themes. That is why I refer people to it.
I had a nominal Lutheran upbringing and was confirmed into the Lutheran church. When I began university Christianity seemed so totally banal–which in hindsight it was/is.
So I began seeking because I was profoundly unhappy. I came across Krishnamurti and Alan Watts via his marvellous book The Taboo Against Knowing What You Are.
In 1973 I came across Adi Da’s (then Franklin Jones)first book The Knee of Listening
4. http://www.kneeoflistening.com
which had a highly positive endorsement and foreword by Alan Watts.
I bought the book took it home and starting reading. The effect was extraordinary. I was suddenly overwhelmed by a rush of extraordinary energy and my whole being was transformed and the entire room was bathed in this extraordinary blissful radiant energy.
I knew I had come home.
This beatific state lasted for 2 weeks then faded. At the same time I had these extraordinary dreams in which Adi Da appeared and had extended conversations with me and showed me all sorts of extraordinary places/spaces.
I have been a devotee of Adi Da ever since and have had been Graced/Blessed to particpate in 10 extended retreats in His Radiant Company both at His Hermitage Ashram in Fiji and His Sanctuary in Northern California.
A response to Phils comments which were in effect a mere statement/summary of his own Christian prejudgements.
I am not urging anyone to become devotees of Adi Da Samraj (though if they were at all hip they definitely should be!). The purpose of my emails is to introduce as many people as I can to Adi Da Samraj.
As far as I remember all of my posts are on the topic being discussed and they also include references/essays which give some explanation as to the unique perspective of the author of the essays I point to–namely Adi Da Samraj.
I would also say that my postings re the Culture Wars (Graham)posting were very relevant as they provided a unique perspective on the key topics of the rancorous secular vs religious culture wars raging in the USA.
Graham is almost an “iconic” figure in USA evangelical circles and his son is part of that benighted movement which demonises Islam. Are any of you familiar with the lunatic rantings of John Hagee. I Suspect Grahams son is a fellow true believer.
Phil uses the usual dismissive four letter word “cult”.
But what is a cult anyway?
What about the word cult-ure?
A collection of two or more people who are fascinated by a particular interest.
A cult can also contain hundreds of millions of people. Over a billion even as in the case of Christianity.
Chapt. 14 of this reference gives an excellent assessment of the would be world conquering motives/actions of the 2 dominant POLITICAL cults of Christianity and Islam
5. http://www.dabase.net/nirvana.htm
These two essays give Adi Da’s comprehensive critique of the origins & consequences of cults and cultism.
6. http://www.dabase.net/cultic.htm
7. http://www.dabase.net/1stword.htm
# 7 is a long and complex essay but well worth the effort to try to understand it!
Phil also claims that Adi Da claims that noone else can become enlightened too.
I guess there are 2 parts to this.
Adi Da does assert that He is the first, last and only COMPLETE Divine Incarnation in the history of the entire cosmos.
To understand this claim one would have to at least study Adi Da’s autobiography The Knee of Listening and some of His other 23 Source Texts
8. http://www.dabase.net/source.htm
But then Adi Da’s stated purpose is the Divine Liberation of ALL beings–not just the humans.A stated purpose which was made right from the start and is repeated again and again throughout His Wisdom Teaching.
Read these opening statements:
“My Beloved every one,
I have Come here to Offer you the Complete Divine Way”
from 9. http://www.dabase.net/oltawwfm.htm
” I Am here to Divinely Liberate all beings.
I Am here to Grant True Freedom to every one”
from 10. http://www.dabase.net/freedom.htm
And the closing statement.
“This Is The Final Truth: I Love You. Real God IS You. You ARE In Real God, Of Real God, and (Ultimately) AS Real God. My Devotee IS The God I Have Come To Serve”
from 11. http://www.dabase.net/divhscrt.htm
In a sense Phils statement re Adi Da’s “exclusive” Divinity/Enlightenment is ironic. Why?
Christians wrongly claim that Jesus was the one and only (and possible) Divine Incarnation. Th
And that the rest of us including all of “creation” is doomed to live in darkness until “jesus” comes again.
What a dismal dis-heartening message!
The inevitable results of such a dismal message are now being broadcast on your TV set. These three essays provide some insight into the origins & consequences of the current world situation.
12. http://www.dabase.net/coop+tol.htm
13. http://www.dabase.net/spacetim.htm
14. http://www.dabase.net/2armP1.htm#ch2
One further comment.Has any one ever noticed that the word consciousness seldom if ever appears on Christian websites or blogs–or in Christian literature.
And when was the last time you saw any reference to Love-Bliss-Radiance or Radiant Conscious Light?
What is a materialist?
Essentially someone/anyone who assumes/presumes that they are in effect this solid meat-body organism and that they are separate from all other human meat-body organisms and from all other sentient meat-body organisms and indeed the entire world process and that they are inherently separate from the Real God or the all pervading Love-Bliss-Radiance or Infinitely Radiant Sea of Conscious Light in which ALL of this is floating.
Any philosophy/theology done/made from the point of view of the meat-body organism is INEVITABLY materialist and reductionist and therefore without any esoteric content whatsoever.
It is only the esoteric language and its content and subsequent practice that makes True Religion culturally senior and superior to any merely exoteric/reductionist wishful hoping.
And which makes the ONLY REAL difference in human history.
I would say that the entire (so called) Emerging Chuch is entirely and only an expression of the exoteric meat-body point of view.
This essay gives an early assessment of Adi Da’s Wisdom Teaching.
15.www.beezone.com/Wilber/onherocults.html
Also a related site re Ken Wilber and the anti-cult movement TOO.
16. http://www.adidawilber.com

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fernando

2006-08-15

John has been commenting on my blog and I have responded as best I can there.

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philjohnson

2006-08-20

I’d like to make a few comments in view of John’s remarks above.
First, it is helpful for readers to know something of John’s journey, his disenchantment with Christianity, his view of the Church, his picture of what Christianity stands for, and his admission that his purpose in his comments that he posts on this blog and several others is about introducing as many as people as is possible to the teachings of Adi Da Samraj.
Readers can make up their minds about whether this qualifies as discussion, relevant comments on blogs, e-proselyting or as Matt brands it “spamgelism”.
Second, I must point out that contrary to John’s remarks I did not introduce the word cult but Matt did. I did not insinuate that Adi Da Samraj is a cult-leader, or that his group is a cult. Nor did I refer to anti-cult literature either directly or indirectly when I raised my initial question on Matt’s “Billy Graham” post in querying John’s actions and impressions about his teacher Adi Da Samraj. I am not involved in the anti-cult movement, and have been on record as a critic of it.
Third, in my original questions to John I described the paradox about Adi Da Samraj’s teaching on enlightenment and the difficulty that followers face. It seems that this state of enlightenment is only held by Adi Da Samraj and is unattainable for followers, yet followers are taught to pursue or experience this enlightenment. I did not derive that observationj from anti-cult literature. It was originally posed in a lecture I attended where a Canadian sociologist spoke after she had interviewed Australian disciples of Adi Da Samraj.
Fourth, there were my observations regarding the apparent blame placed on followers by Adi Da Samraj for the group not holding a large number of disciples. Those observations are based on two videos I was privileged to see that were produced by the ashram in Fiji and where Adi Da Samraj addressed his audience about this problem.
Fifth, I did raise the question as to the direct relevance of the many comments that John has posted on Matt’s blog and other blogs. John believes that his posted comments are not tangential but always are on topic. Readers can peruse them on Matt’s blog and decide for themselves.
However to illustrate the point I offer a couple of examples from other blogs:
Anthony Bradley on his worldmagblog on July 13 2006 posted an item that was topic-specific: it was on the definition of “emergent” and “emerging” as specifically applied to the Emerging Churches and nothing else. John dropped off a comment with two suggested articles that have nothing at all to do with the definition of the terms as they are used in Emerging Church discussions. John stated:
“I quite like these 2 essays on Divine emergence.
1. http://www.dabase.net/divemerg.htm
2. http://www.dabase.net/oltawwfm.htm”
The articles are not about the Emerging Church. The connection for John is simply “emergence”, but the writings of his guru as listed there do not relate to the Emerging Church at all. This is what I meant by things being tangential or off-topic.
At the naturalphilosopherblogspot on April 12 2006 the blogger reproduced a book review. John drops by with this:
“Hi its John again. I much prefer these essays and references on REAL GOD.
1. http://www.dabase.net/noface.htm
2. http://www.realgod.org
3. http://www.dabase.net/dht6.htm
4. http://www.dabase.net/divemerg.htm
5. http://www.dabase.net/oltawwfm.htm”
Again, what relevance did this have for the book review itself or for the book that was reviewed (Christianity and postmodernity)?
And the team of Catholics who run the blog cosmos-liturgy-sex, one of the blog members took umbrage at John’s comments. On July 27 2006 one the blogger-team responded in strong terms:
“John – it appears to me that you really do not understand what you condemn and that you have gullibly adopted the latest popular rehashing of Eastern mysticism repackaged for Westerners seeking but not knowing what. For whatever reason it appeals to you, preference is not the arbiter of truth. If you want to discuss your understanding of what you are rejecting or why you think your preferred doctrine is true then please explicate.
You are free to comment here but the rules are that you engage the comments and critique them. Caricature and ad hominem are not means of discourse, but simply attempts at self satisfaction and to which we do not cater.”
I do not cite the above to be vulgar or dismissive of John nor would I use that vocabulary. However it seems like other bloggers do perceive John along the lines that Matt suggested.
Perhaps other readers and Emerging Church bloggers might like to offer remarks.
In view of John’s strong comments about Emerging Church and “body-meat”, it remains to be seen if dialogue and discussion can occur between John and other Christians.

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