I was over at Scott McKnight’s blog and see the Seattle Times has reported on an Episcopalian priest who has announced she is both Christian and Muslim. Many Christians and Muslims are obviously perplexed. I am just wondering how she manages to recite either the Nicene Creed or the Shahadah with a straight face, given even she admits they contradict each other in crucial respects. Doing nothing more than forging a third religion through syncretism if you ask me. I’d rather people just be honest about it than claiming its some sort of ecumenism.
Curious Christian
Reflections on culture, nature, and spirituality from a Christian perspective
“I am both Muslim and Christian”
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16 responses to ““I am both Muslim and Christian””
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AMEN!
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I’ve got to agree with you.
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Dave Paisley comments here:
http://davepaisley.typepad.com/disaster_area/2007/06/those_wacky_epi.html
The Anglican tribe in general have a lot to offer, but these folks are truly wacky, God love’em.
DanaLikeLike
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exactly – she’s neither Christian nor Muslim and claiming to be both is an insult to both.
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It all hinges on how you define Christian and Muslim.
From Wikipedia: Most Muslims accept others as a Muslim anyone who has publicly pronounced the Shahada, which states, “There is none worthy of worship except God, and Muhammad is His Messenger.”
I won’t attempt to define ‘Christian’ here – but let’s just acknowledge that there is no single agreed definition.
I, for one, could happily and sincerely say the Shahada and still believe myself to be a Christian. Of course I would put a Christian understanding into those words. for me God is the Trinity including Jesus Christ. And while I believe that Mohammed was a messenger of God that doesn’t mean I believe he was infallible.LikeLike
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but in Christianity there is no worship of others so worshiping Muhammad would not be congruent with orthodox Christianity.
And I disagree that there is no single agreed definition. There is a “creedal” faith that defines orthodoxy. If we get so far away from creedal orthodoxy that people can comfortably claim to simultaneously be Muslim, then we are no longer Christian.
I’m not making a statement about this woman’s eternal state or anything like that. But what I AM saying is I don’t think it’s right that she claims to be both when in reality she has created her own belief system that embraces neither in it’s orthodox fullnessLikeLike
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I have to agree with Makeesha- I could not hand on heart declare Mohammed worthy of worship.
This is syncretism plain and simple…LikeLike
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But Muslims don’t worship Mohammed. They regard him as a prophet – along with Moses, Abraham and Jesus. In fact for Mohammed his main point of disagreement with Christians was that he regarded Jesus as a prophet rather than God – not so different from Arianism. In fact when Islam first appeared on the scene most people thought of it as just another Christian sect (see William Dalrymple’s excellent book From The Holy Mountain).
While I agree that the creeds define orthodoxy I would like to know which bit of which creed is incompatible with saying the Shahada.
It is also worth pointing the difference between official creeds and what ordinary believers practice. I suspect that the authors of the Nicene creed would have a lot of question marks about the contemporary Christology of many Christians.LikeLike
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“I suspect that the authors of the Nicene creed would have a lot of question marks about the contemporary Christology of many Christians.”
of course, but that’s getting into another issue altogether.
you quoted the shahada as thus – “There is none worthy of worship except God, and Muhammad is His Messenger.”
they are saying that God and Muhammad are worthy of worship…not to mention that my understanding is that Islam has an orthodoxy beyond just that statement anyway.
Christianity decrees (according to our Holy Scriptures, our ancient Tradition and our creeds) that God is one and he alone is to be worshiped as Christ himself said to Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul mind and strength repeating the shema as declared in the Torah by God Himself.
If there is no orthodoxy in Christianity then there is no point. If there is no orthodoxy in Islam then there is no point. When someone strays that far from orthodoxy in either religion then they are no longer a full participant in that religion.
Again, the only thing I would say about this is it makes this woman unfit as a priest to administer the sacraments of our faith. Aside from that, I don’t question her status with God or her place on the journey nor do I doubt her story or her experiences – i can’t judge any of that. But for her to claim to be both Christian and Muslim is theologically errant on both sides and a very confusing and poor witness on both sides.
She would be more accurate to say that she appreciates certain components of both faiths and has decided to embrace those things with which she agrees but because she does not fully embrace the orthodoxy of either, she will not proclaim the creeds of either as a sign of respect for the fullness of orthodoxy of both religions.
What I *do* doubt here is her respect for both religions as I find the whole thing quite offensive as a Christian and apparently many Muslims also find it offensive.LikeLike
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I believe Mike is correct in asserting Muslims don’t worship Mohammed. They worship Allah alone and would be horrified of any assertion to the contrary. We should be wary of projecting Christian understandings of Christ onto Muslim understandings of Mohammed.
BUT the Shahada does involve affirming Mohammed as the penultimate messenger of God, which is just as problematic for a Christian. For a Muslim, Mohammed is not just A messenger of God, Mohammed is THE messenger of God. This is no less a challenge to the divinity of Jesus when you really think about it.
AND the God behind the Shahada is also problematic for the Christian, for Allah is decidedly non-Trinitarian according to the Koran, the message passed on by this messenger:
“O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in God and His apostles. Say not “Trinity” : desist: it will be better for you: for God is one God: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs.” (Koran 4:171)
“They do blaspheme who say: God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.” (Koran 5:73)
So I don’t see how any Christian who truly understands the Shahada could truly affirm it. And having referenced these passages from the Koran, I trust I need not explain any further how Muslims would have a problem affirming the highly Trinitarian Nicene Creed or even the simple “Jesus is Lord” affirmation of Paul.LikeLike
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I should add, I think Arianism is a moot point as the priest in question is claiming to be Episcopalian.
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Of course there are significant differences between Islam and Christianity. But I don’t think we should be so quick to judge this person. I know a lot of Muslims for whom the essence of Islam is submission to the will of God. I have Christian friends who have so impressed Muslims by their godliness that they have been told ‘you are a true Muslim’.
For me the deeper issue is what we mean when we apply labels like ‘Christian’ or ‘Muslim’. Most of the time it is more a label of tribal identity than a statement of theological beliefs. For 95% of Christians and Muslims their religion is simply what they are born into rather than the result of weighing up the theological pros and cons of each religion and making an informed choice. When St Paul says that ‘in Christ there is no Greek or Jew” he was calling us to rise above (or go deeper than) these tribal labels and follow the incarnate God who is Lord of All – irrespective of class or creed.
I don’t know what promted this Episcopalian priest to say what she is reported as saying, but I hope we can refrain from knee-jerk reactions.LikeLike
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The apostles warned us against judging others, so true. But remember, they equally warned us to be discerning. Respecting others does not require us to agree with everything they have to say. I am not judging her moral status; I am just critiquing her understanding. Such distinctions are extremely important in situations like this.
My assessment that Christianity and Islam are mutually exclusive at the deepest levels is born of study of and reflection on both and far from a knee jerk response. This is not to say Christians can’t learn from Islam, appreciate its finer points or even incorporate its more compatible aspects into their own practice. I think we can. If she was merely interested in incorporating chanting, meditation and prostrate prayer into her Christian practice I would see no issues.
But fundamental choices arise when the teachings of Mohammed and Jesus come into conflict. A Muslim will consistently choose Mohammed’s teachings ahead of Christ’s, even though he might honour Christ. A Christian will consistently choose Christ’s teachings ahead of Mohammed’s, even though he might honour Mohammed. Only a syncretist will vacillate between the two, following neither consistently. In claiming to be other than that, to be a true Muslim and true Christian simultaneously, she is just muddying the waters. She is not helping Muslim-Christian reconciliation by that. And love does not require us to validate such misconceptions.
Where the teachings of Mohammed and Jesus are in harmony no choice between the two need be made, but we can’t escape the fact that one of the things their teachings do conflict on is the divinity of Jesus and the Trinitarian nature of God. Those are hardly peripheral matters, even for the most unreflective Muslim.LikeLike
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I think I’m being very respectful of this woman AND her journey in faith. The only thing I’m “judging” is the rightness of her claim to be both Christian and Muslim. She is neither and that’s simply being discerning and being wise to uphold the most basic and fundamental tenets of our faith.
We need to uphold what Christian orthodoxy is if we’re going to actually BE Christian.
As for the details of Islam, I haven’t read the Koran in a long time but Matt explained just a few of the problems quite well so I’ll leave it at that.LikeLike
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The difference between a real in depth christian is to have a relationship with the only real living God and that can only be achieved by submitting or leaving all prideful behaviour behind and giving your heart to Jesus and living according to the Word of God and being guided by the Holy Spirit.The difference between christianity and other religions of the world is that other religions claim that they can worship any thing of the earth and still get through to GOD.The God of the Bible says that He is a Jealous God and He calls Himself Jealous.Another point to remember is that you can get to the end of other religions,:this means they start falling away because there is no real spirituality of love.Jesus could love the worst person in the world and still die for them.Are there any of the other religious gods willing to die for them….NO.You see we cannot really love our enemies without us obeying the Word and living according to it.As we draw closer to Jesus we get to love our worst enemies.You will only understand this when you submit to the Word of God.God offered His Word to us to be a lamp unto our feet and a light to our pathway.We have 2 natures:a carnal nature and a spiritual nature,the one you feed the most is the one that will control you the most and the one that conrols you the most is the one that you will feed the most.Feed it with good food-the BREAD of LIFE -the WORD OF GOD,THE BIBLE
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Trevor, could I refer you to my post on “Initiating inter-religious conversations the easy way” and “Guidelines for answering questions about Christ”. You might find it will help you engage with this site more effectively.
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