Those who judge will be judged
Those who forgive will be forgiven
What about those who give just to get?
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Reflections on Christianity, Art, Nature, and Culture
Curious Christian
What an interesting thought… hmm…
Perhaps this is addressed, to some degree, here:
http://seekstheonetruth.blogspot.com/2008/01/do-not-those-who-always-seek.html
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I ponder this question quite often and have discussed it with others. Honestly, does anyone give with 100% unselfish motives? Is it only human to be ultimately self-serving? When you say “Those who give just to get,” who are you exactly referring to?
The only person that I can think of who doesn’t fit that description is Jesus. The rest of us just hope and pretend. Don’t you think? Some people get very angry when I say this, but I’m speaking to myself as well.
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Matthew, My Spiritual Teacher points out that we are entirely karmic entities and that every aspect of the body-mind that we presume to be is the product of our karmic history.
He points out that every moment that you “fall” into identification with the mortal meat-body you become helplessly entangled in its karmic pattern, and that their is nothing that you can do about it, because the “you” that wants to do something is itself part of the pattern—and therefore only reinforces the binding pattern
He also points out that the psycho-physical universe altogether, or the klik-klak pattern patterning, operates by immutable karmic laws. You always reap what you sow, sooner or later.
He also points out that when your current meat-body dies, your deeper personality vehicle, or psycho-physical pattern continues (and forever) until you wake up.
Plus cultures altogether operate under such immutable karmic psycho-physical pattern patterning laws.
Which is why the times are so bad because Western “culture” (in particular) has been dramatizing a power and control seeking dis-sociative pattern for a very long time—for at least 3000 years in fact.
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Matthew, My Spiritual Teacher points out that we are entirely karmic entities and that every aspect of the body-mind that we presume to be is the product of our karmic history.
He points out that every moment that you “fall” into identification with the mortal meat-body you become helplessly entangled in its karmic pattern, and that their is nothing that you can do about it, because the “you” that wants to do something is itself part of the pattern—and therefore only reinforces the binding pattern
He also points out that the psycho-physical universe altogether, or the klik-klak pattern patterning, operates by immutable karmic laws. You always reap what you sow, sooner or later.
He also points out that when your current meat-body dies, your deeper personality vehicle, or psycho-physical pattern continues (and forever) until you wake up.
Plus cultures altogether operate under such immutable karmic psycho-physical pattern patterning laws.
Which is why the times are so bad because Western “culture” (in particular) has been dramatizing a power and control seeking dis-sociative pattern for a very long time—for at least 3000 years in fact.
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Linda, I was pondering the whole question of salvation. The apostles and prophets indicate that faith/trust in God/Jesus is the essential thing. However, what do we mean by this? What does it mean to have faith? We need to reconcile it with what Jesus said about only those who forgive being forgiven. I seems to me that faith and forgiveness are inextricably linked here.
Now, Christians of course are not the only people who practice forgiveness. What of people who forgive without knowing Jesus? Can be saved through other religions? Hmmm. This is where I think we need to look deeper again. In considering religions like Buddhism and Hinduism we can’t go past karma. Karma is impersonal. Unlike God, karma allows no mercy. What you reap is what you sow. This presents a problem. It would seem that, even we adopt an inclusivist position and entertain the possibility that non-Christians can be saved, we would still have to say they are saved in spite of their religious commitments, not through them. For none of these religions teach, as Jesus did, that those that forgive will be forgiven.
These thoughts on karma lead me to the last question. Is not giving just to get, doing good to earn merit, just another form of judgement in a way? Do karmic religions forster a genuine uncalculated altruism? For this is what Jesus calls us to, an altruism that gains us nothing because God has already given us himself.
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John, this is where the teachings of Adi Da and Jesus are significantly different. The resurrection of my spiritual teacher affirms that the meat-body, as you call it, may be redeemed, that is no more disposable than the mind. And more, that through him we need not reap what we sow – he reaps what we sow and we reap what he sows.
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