Curious Christian

Reflections on culture, nature, and spirituality from a Christian perspective

Vaginas are as “grave” as paedophilia says Vatican

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Matt Stone

2010-07-20

Just when you thought the Vatican may coming to grips with some of its internal problems, again it demonstrates what a truly medieval organization it is.

From the New York Times:

“This week, the Vatican outlined more new rules for the disciplining of abusive priests, and called pedophilia a grave crime constituting egregious violations of moral law. In the same breath, the Vatican also reaffirmed its opposition to women’s ordination and reminded Catholics that ‘the attempted ordination of women’ is a grave crime too.”

“The jarring juxtaposition of these two disparate issues seems mindboggling. Their insensitive conflation highlights that Vatican officials still do not fully apprehend the grave emotional cost of the irreparable harm done to numerous individuals and their families by the actions of priests and church officials. It also shows that the Vatican does not fully grasp how the scandal has diminished its credibility among Catholics, victims and non-victims alike, who want to find pastoral healing, spiritual strength, and moral leadership within the Catholic Church.”

Now, to be fair, Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi did try to underscore how the ordination of women is “a crime against sacraments,” while paedophilia should be considered a “crime against morals,” but honestly guys (and I do mean guys) what the hell were you thinking?

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Tags Sexuality

7 responses to “Vaginas are as “grave” as paedophilia says Vatican”

Paula

2010-07-20

Unbelievable. I like many Catholics don’t want to believe that the Vatican is as bad as it seems to be. But with recent revelations in the news in the past few months and now this, I can’t even go to church. My local parish is not crazy, but how can I participate in Eucharist with people that ignore and hide pedophiles and totally abuse women? The nuns I know are so free and totally committed to serving God. But then they are the ones who deal with people day in and day out. the Bishops and Pope are far removed from reality and in their own little world of theology which has become very distorted. I am so sad. But as the present Pope once said in 1967
“Over the pope as expression of the binding claim of ecclesiastical authority, there stands one’s own conscience which must be obeyed before all else, even if necessary against the requirement of ecclesiastical authority. This emphasis on the individual, whose conscience confronts him with a supreme and ultimate tribunal, and one which in the last resort is beyond the claim of external social groups, even the official church, also establishes a principle in opposition to increasing totalitarianism”.
(Joseph Ratzinger in: Commentary on the Documents of Vatican II ,Vol. V., pg. 134 (Ed) H. Vorgrimler, New York, Herder and Herder, 1967).
I believe that God and I are one to one and I stand by my conscience. But I wonder if I will ever attend Mass again?

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Matt Stone

2010-07-21

Paula, I hope you can. Two things I would say, well, maybe three.
Firstly, there are many more expressions of Christianity than Catholicism, so I’d encourage you to try a few before opting out of Christian community altogether. I don’t think discipleship was meant to be a solo enterprise so I’d encourage you to find a discipling community of some sort.
Secondly, even within the Catholic church, the church much more than its leadership. Having grown up Catholic but having been out of it for a while, I’ve come to this point now where I can recognize much good even though I recognize much bad. The Catholic tradition has reformed itself internally before, may it do so again. If you do stay I’d like to encourage you to fight on.
Thirdly, and most importantly, remember who the true Lord over the church is. The Vatican isn’t the final authority, the Christ is. So, I’d encourage you to get behind whatever Christ is doing within his church, even where his leaders aren’t.

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Paula

2010-07-21

I had been to at least five other churches before coming to Catholic Church. It was like, if this isn’t it, I’m done. I think the tons of reading I have done over the years has made me come to my own views without reservations. I have followed the progress of when the available books were narrowed down to a few and why and how men have managed to keep control of the faith over the years. Religion is definitely a human power thing. So like many things, what I believe the Church to be and what it is when I go there simply is not real. It’s hard for me to sit there when my priests defend the 95% of good men instead of standing against the ones that abuse children and cover it up with the full authority of the church all the way to the Pope. It’s hard for me to see how nuns are treated. I saw the movie “Doubt” and that was the last straw for me. I hung out with nuns for three years who were very independent and down to earth and and had a very real and mystical ground faith who fought for Truth. Saying feminism like it is a swear word is ignorant. Once we were having Mass at the college I was attending and the priest didn’t show up for some reason. When we got to the Eucharist, the nun said she didn’t know what to do. I said, if Mary could have Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit, you can do that (meaning Eucharist). Another said, I like the way you think, Paula. I mean, seriously! The Catholics say the cafeteria is closed. But they closed it a long time ago (`180AD) by calling many of the early books heretical that weren’t. While I believe Jesus more than ever, I don’t even know if I am a Christian in the sense of the word anymore. The Angel appeared to Mary and asked he directly. Didn’t say to ask her father or brother or finance or church leader. And the Angel gave her a choice. God talks to men AND women in the Bible. Even if people use that as their only source how can they ignore how important women were in a leadership role at their time? So I thank you for your support. I just can’t go back yet and I don’t want to go anywhere else. Something very drastic would have to happen in the Catholic Church and I just don’t see it coming. I’ll hang with my Catholic friends who think like I do and fight the silent battle by standing firm and praying. I learn from the Kabbalah Centre. Judaism makes a lot of sense and explains Jesus much better than Christianity does at times. After all, Jesus was a Jew sent to Jews and taught the Jewish religion. He came to fulfill not abolish. Fear no longer has a hold on me.

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Matt Stone

2010-07-21

I realise what consolation I can offer you here is limited.
It pains me to hear you haven’t experienced more egalitarian churches even beyond the Catholic Church. In Australia the Baptist church leaves it up to local churches to decide whether they ordain women or not, they don’t dictate one way or the other. In our own church, well, while the pastor is male, the church has allowed women to both preach and baptize. Moreover, my own wife has been currently heading up the diaconate this year as church secretary. This is fairly significant for congregationally governed churches. Moreover, a friend of her friend is a female pastor in the Uniting Church. So in our experience there’s plenty of scope for women to exercise leadership. I wish you could experience that. But I recognize location may have something to do with it and that’s not something that can be changed easy.
It also pains me to hear the nuns were so lost when a priest was not present for communion. Yikes, I’ve led communion myself and I’m just a lay person. I realise why Catholic ecclesiology excludes the possibility, but even so, I know how much it would have frustrated me in that situation can only imagine how you would have felt.
I have to admit, I do reject many of the same books the Catholics do, and like them, I do affirm Jesus as being more than Jews say he is. So I differ with you there. Nevertheless, while I agree with them on that I still affirm women in leadership. For I see nothing in the Bible that precludes it, not when it’s read holistically. The New Testament speaks of female apostles, prophets and teachers. I need not go beyond the canon to find this. The Vatican has come to its position through the canon IMO, but in spite of it.

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Steve Hayes

2010-07-27

Perhaps they weren’t thinkling that the media think 2+2=22.
Or perhaps they were thinking that since, as far as the media are concerned, it’s damned if you do and damned if you don’t, they just don’t care what kind of malicious misrepresentations the media make any more.
The bigger problem is the resders who give credence to such rubbish.

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Steve Hayes

2010-07-27

More on readers and the media:
http://nickbaines.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/media-literacy-lesson-1/

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Matt Stone

2010-07-27

Maybe I’m a slow learner, or maybe just hopeful, but I’m still astounded that the Vatican wasn’t more media savvy than this. They should destructively test their media statements against some focus groups before releasing anything on sex or gender. Yes they are always going to cop it, but keep the target small, don’t paint concentric red circles on your forehead, be wary of language that invites reading the wrong way. That’s what I say. This positively invites critique.

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