Curious Christian

Reflections on culture, nature, and spirituality from a Christian perspective

Krishnamurti is making me cranky

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Matt Stone

2008-02-07

Have any of you read Krishnamurti before?

Some time ago I got my hands on a copy of “Inward Revolution” by Krishnamurti and I finally got around to beginning it this week. Still only part way through but getting rather annoyed by it already. For a teacher dedicated to expounding the virtues of deep communication and awareness he sure doesn’t listen to his students too well. In the dialogical segments he is cutting them off, projecting stuff onto them and generally disparaging them in a way I know I would have found quite offensive if I had actually been in the original audience.

And in the more monological sections he just seems to ramble on a hell of a lot, far more than the Zen masters and Yogis that I have read elsewhere. I am wondering, are all Krishnamurti’s books are like this? Sheesh.

I wanted to read this to gain more insight into a guy so closely connected with Annie Besant, Aldous Huxley, Joseph Campbell and others, and of course the Theosophical Society. Not sure if I’ll last the distance now. Developing more of an inward apathy than an inward revolution.

Tags Books, Hindu

13 responses to “Krishnamurti is making me cranky”

Isaiah

2008-02-07

We just started Joseph Campbell in school, can you do a couple posts on his thought?

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Matt Stone

2008-02-08

Yeah, I could probably do that. May have to wait a week or two though as there are already I few things I am overdue on. But, that does sound like a good idea.

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Isaiah

2008-02-08

Thanks, that would be awesome!

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ken

2008-02-08

Krishnamurti is probably the greatest sage since the Buddha, and one of the most fascinating characters of the twentieth century. I would suggest you read the shorter book “Freedom from the Known”. The best work is “The First and Last Freedom”.
I heard him speak in person on many occasions and the time you spend studying him is time well spent.

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Sue

2008-02-08

I read Krishnamurti years ago. I particularly liked The First & Last Freedom plus Freedom From The Known. I found First & Last to be a very useful resource for examining what Krishnamurti called “the circus” of conventional religion and the banality of the usual “civilised” life.
And particularly his insights on FEAR.
Altogether though, he is/was quite limited because he promoted the delusion that one could be “free” by attending a lecture hall talk (or talks) by him, or by reading his books and attempting to use his words to transform yourself. Without any other kind of comprehensive sadhana or spiritual practice, and without the guidance of a living guru. Such guidance being the foundational essence of ALL Eastern spiritual traditions. And even the best of the Western traditions.
Even Matt is training to be a spiritual counsellor. This in itself is recognition that in one way or another, most, if not all people, require some kind of spiritual guidance—however that is defined.
He particularly appealed to Westerners with their addiction to left-brained abstract and abstracting thinking and the delusion that the mere verbal, and perhaps emotional, sympathy with a philosophical statement or argument, is sufficient for understanding one’s self, and everything altogether.
He also preached against any kind of resort to the authority of either the scriptures and, particularly, gurus or spiritual teachers.
But despite claims to the contrary, he played the role and cultivated the aura of a guru or spiritual teacher just by the manner in which he taught. He even, in private, conducted group meditation sessions, and one on one spiritual counselling.
His various fans have even made a cult out him via the way in which they revere him and his published talks and writings. And in the way that they regularly made the pilgrimage to attend his talks while he was alive. The statement by Ken is indicative of that.

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ken

2008-02-09

I agree that Krishnamurti’s teaching was rather dry, repetitive, Socratic and, if you heard him in person, sleep-inducing.
In addition, it would be foolish to think that listening to a lecture could produce transformation, although I’m certain many people listening to him in person hoped for such an illumination.
But to retreat from this and fall back into the traditional and tired defense of the need for spiritual guidance and the practice of techniques and methods of personal improvement strikes me as fatuous. As Krishnamurti once said…
“The man who has progressed through being a sinner to being a saint has progressed from one illusion to another. This whole movement is an illusion. When the mind sees this illusion it is no longer creating any illusion, it is no longer measuring. Therefore thought has come to an end with regard to becoming better. Out of this comes a state of liberation – and this is sacred. This alone can, perhaps, receive the constant.”
Yep, that’s Krishnamurti. He refused to take any prisoners.
ken

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Matt Stone

2008-02-09

Ken and Sue, I note you both recommend the same two books. Are they widely considered to be his best works or is that just personal preference? I am not one of these people who likes to pit our best against his worst, I do like to be as fair minded as possible, so I appreciate your advice on this.
I must say however that I do agree with Sue it terms of what I have read so far, there seems to be a significant contradiction between his talk against reliance on authority and the guru aura he projects.

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Matt Stone

2008-02-09

A point of clarification too on me training to be a “spiritual counselor”.
I think it is important to distinguish between (1) counselors who counsel on spirituality, in overtly spiritual contexts, and (2) counselors who counsel on anything, no matter how secular the context, yet draw on their spirituality in everything. Even though the course I am undertaking encompasses the former, it is more inclined towards the latter.

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Matt Stone

2008-02-09

Saints are sinners? Yes indeed! Maybe we could make a Christian out of you Ken? Let’s see, is there some water around here somewhere…

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ken

2008-02-10

“Maybe we could make a Christian out of you Ken? Let’s see, is there some water around here somewhere…”
——————
¶ Been there, done that.
As far as Krishnamurti goes, people will create images about him just as they do any other teacher or philosopher. What’s important is the freedom he espouses. If you can find that, he becomes secondary. In fact, all organized religion becomes irrelevant.
Contrary to Sue, I know of no spiritual counseling sessions Krishnamurti ever conducted.

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Isaiah

2008-02-16

Still eager about that Joseph Campbell post…

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Jonathan

2008-02-26

I too read Krishnamurti for a long while, but ultimately he asks a question for which I had no answer. He would ask ‘is it possible for the mind to look without the burden of time, without experience as the knower intruding on the observation.’ To which, after ten years of reading, I could only say ‘no, it is not possible’. Krishnamurti definitely has some important things to say, but I don’t know if his speaking could ever bring about the transformation in anyone else that he seemed to have undergone.

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Jim Johnson

2011-03-23

Krishnamurti never expected anyone attending his talks to get any truth from him. In fact, he disbanded the society (Order of the Star) that sought to “follow” him.
His constant reminder: “Truth is a pathless land.”

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