Yoga Body, Yoga Spirit

I have been looking back over what I’ve written on Yoga over the years, and have how people have commented in response, and what stands out for me is the need for Christians to clearly articulate how they understand the mind, body, soul and Spirit.

Yoga, given its Hindu origins, tends to be grounded in a pantheistic (God is all) worldview where no meaningful distinction is recognized between soul and Spirit, humanity and divinity. Christianity, on the other hand, is grounded in a monotheistic (God is one) worldview, where a significant distinction is recognized between humanity and divinity, soul and Spirit, which has consequences for how we understand union / yoga with God. The hurdles to union are not just perceptual and mechanical, they are also ethical and relational. Thus, genuine union goes beyond experience, beyond what we can perceive. And yet, experience of God is not unimportant or inconsequential. It is a blessing to experience. So, how to move forward? For me it is a matter of faith seeking experience.

Authentic yoga, authentic union, begins with faith, begins with entrusting your self, your soul to God, to Spirit. The soul is not essentially equivalent to Spirit, but it is radically dependant on Spirit, a subtle but important difference. Thus, contra Hinduism, authentic yoga is more about soul realignment or attunement than soul deconstruction or denial. Its about entrusting ourselves to Spirit, the Spirit most deeply known through Christ. Christian yoga begins with Christ faith.

Going deeper, from a Hebraic understanding the soul is a mind and body unity, it is the self understood holistically. So there is no mind / body split, but there is a soul / Spirit split. Christian yoga, union with Christ, heals this split through the karmic transferrence he achieved through his death and resurrection.

So what then of experience? Well, faith needs to be exercised. We are called to love the Lord with all our heart, mind, body and soul, so what are we waiting for? Use your body as God intended it, worship the Lord with your whole self. Let go. Trust. Listen. Listen to yourself, listen to your environment, listen to your God, listen with your whole self and not just your ears. It is said the sacred / secular split is a false one, well, what of the split between physical discipline and spiritual discipline? Stretch yourself. Why not explore as you exercise?

 

19 Comments

  1. Karmic transference: nice move!
    One doesn’t want to ignore or demonise karma but one wants the miracle of grace in the face of its determinism; so that works well. Thanks.

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  2. Hey matt, enjoying your thoughts on yoga.
    Your description seems to resonate with my understanding of jnana yoga – using intellect, the mind to explain how union with God is developed. Language, logic etc are a great way to achieve union with God.
    Other paths, such as bhakti yoga or bhakti marga (the path of devotion) emphasize using loving worship, adoration of Christ (or God) as the path to union. Aradhna are a Christian band who explore this well (http://www.aradhnamusic.com/).
    Hatha yoga, the yoga of physical postures we see all the time, is another path. This is usually part of the system called Astanga yoga, which includes mediation, pranayama, internal and external observances etc. Astanga yoga uses attention to the present experience (in the mind or breath or body) to bring about union.
    I think there is wisdom in a system that allows for a range of paths to achieve “union”, and encourages us to follow the path that works. In some ways (my own theory now), our recent Christian history has been too “jnana” focussed – relying on intellectual assent, and this is what created the environment for “bhakti” charismatic movements to grow. What needs to emerge now is incarnational, fully embodied, local expressions – “astanaga” versions of christianity – that are fully present to the communities they grow in, and are not afraid to see things as they are.
    ps. Yogic and hindu philosophy differ in a number of ways. Yoga, unlike hinduism, was originally dualistic, not pantheistic. It has also been monotheistic (recognising one god – isvara – kind of like the deist god). It was with the emergence of tantric interpretations that some schools of yoga became pantheistic. Its probably important to point out that while yes, yoga has hindu roots, its philosophy developed in a different direction and not everything that is true of one is true of the other.

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  3. Ben, I agree we need a range of ‘paths’ within Christianity but suggest that neither bhakti yoga or hatha yoga are mindless, that is, without thoughtfully examined foundations. Consider Patanjali’s yoga sutras and the Bhagavad Gita for instance. Though the emphasis on thinking, feeling and acting may differ between the different forms of yoga, I have to question whether a disavowal of theory for hatha is not an importation of inversed western dualism. I can’t say I’ve ever encountered a yoga practice that had NO theory behind it. Therefore, I don’t think its uneastern for Christian yoga of any sort to have some theorectical foundations. In fact, I would say holism demands it.
    Also, I want to reinforce that I don’t think we can say yoga ‘achieves’ union, at least from within a Christian framework. It’s more a case of bringing a pre-existing union into conscious experience.
    As for Isvara, I may be wrong but everything Ive read on him seemed more henotheistic than monotheistic, if you catch my drift.
    But, all that being said, I affirm your essential point that mind, heart and body alternatives are all worthy of exploring.

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  4. Hi Matt,
    Great blog, really enjoyed it so far. The art is especially nice; and the esoteric art, very nice!
    If this post was made for those who need to keep their concept of what “Christ” is, that’s great, and great for Christians of course. I mean, it is a christian blog and all. However, I think even many Hindus understand that the “Christ” or “Son” or “True Self” or whatever religion would call it, existed before any created thing, and was used by God to create. Did Jesus exist in eternity or did Christ? I believe this is even confirmed in the Christian Bible.
    “You have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen [invisible God] his form.”
    “If anyone trusts in himself that he is Christ’s [God’s Christ / One Son], let him consider this again with himself, that, even as he [Jesus, whoever] is Christ’s, so also “we” are Christ(s).
    “…because as he is, even so are we in this world.”
    Could it be that many Christs have existed, and that the man Jesus was just one that God intended to do a great amount of work through? The name “Krishna” for instance . . . very similar. Was he a Christ by the same Spirit?
    I believe many Hindus have the concept of what it means to be a Master/Christ and that perhaps only different names exist for the same thing, in which for us to understand.
    Maybe this is already something you have concluded, but I think it’s probably the main reason why Christians have trouble getting to know the path of yoga.
    So, in conclusion . . . Is Christ God? Yes. Is Jesus God? No. Is Jesus One with God? Yes!
    “Ye are gods”

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  5. Dustin
    In this post I was primarily addressing Christians. Specifically, Christians with pre-existing interests in yoga. In my travels I have encounted many such folk. Some have been new Christians, who’ve converted to Christianity from New Age and other new religious movements. Many more have been life long Christians, who’ve discovered an interest in more eastern ways of doing things. For each I am saying, here is how you can explore such interests from firmer ground, without sacrificing a Christ-centered understanding of Spirit or salvation.
    But I am aware that Hindus and others are probably listening in. To them I would pose a question and a challenge: is Prana intrinsically passive, or can Prana act on its own initiative? If Prana is only passive, if it can only be unleased through self effort, where is the escape from ego? My experience however, is that Prana has a personal, initiative taking dimension. Thus the capitalization.
    As for non-Christian understandings of Christ, that is precisely the problem. Christianity is a Christ-centered spirituality. Hinduism may be Christ-accomodating, but its not Christ-centered. The moment we decenter Christ, the moment we differentiate between Jesus and Christ, the moment we put Krishna on par with the Christ, in that moment, implicitly or explicitly, is deconversion from Christianity and conversion to Hinduism.
    The letter to the Hebrews expresses it this way, “In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.”
    This, then, is the basic incompatability between Hinduism and Christianity. Christ-centeredness as Jesus-centeredness is anathema to Hinduism, but essential to Christianity. I think there is space in Christianity for accomodating Krishna, but only in terms of the “logos spermatikos”, only in terms of the lesser ways the Father “spoke to our forefathers” before he fully revealed himself in his Son. It is indeed why many Christians have trouble getting to know the path of yoga. Because it is only when the Christ is placed at the center of yoga that Christians can practice yoga in an authentically Christian way.
    For more see:
    http://mattstone.blogs.com/christian/2008/07/worldviews-a-snapshot.html

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  6. “To them I would pose a question and a challenge: is Prana intrinsically passive, or can Prana act on its own initiative? If Prana is only passive, if it can only be unleased through self effort, where is the escape from ego?”
    I am no expert on Yoga, but let me try to answer this. The biggest challenge in Physics is to find the grand unified force – or the force/energy from which all the other forces can be derived. Expressed in another way all forces/energies are manifestations of this Force. The yogis called this Force/Energy Prana. Now Prana can exist as potential Or as manifest.
    Further is not thought, will etc also a manifestation of Prana? How do you tie “unleashing the prana” to “escape from ego”?
    Also will some one please explain what is Christian yoga?

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  7. Yogin
    Physics research into the possibility of a universal field theory is focussed on the question of how the four fundamental “physical” forces – strong nuclear, weak nuclear, electromagnetism, and gravity – may be explained in terms of a single unified “physical” force.
    What you’re introducing here is the concept of a “spiritual” force, and thus, a category confusion.
    Now, don’t get me wrong. I myself am interested in exploring the connection between the physical and the spiritual. But recognize that physics is restricted to physical research, that spiritual research goes beyond what counts as science. Let’s not pretend prana talk is scientific, let’s respect both spirituality and science and not decend into pseudo-science.
    Now, to get to your comments, I recognise that prana can be manifest. But that’s not what I’m asking. It’s more along the lines of: is awakening dependant on self effort? As for what is Christian yoga, I would say any yoga that’s Christ-centered.

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  8. Matt,
    Here is what Swami Vivekananda says on Akasha and Prana in his Raja Yoga
    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/5208/rajayoga/prana.html
    “Pranayama is not, as many think, something about breath; breath indeed has very little to do with it, if anything. Breathing is only one of the many exercises through which we get to the real Pranayama. Pranayama means the control of Prana. According to the philosophers of India, the whole universe is composed of two materials, one of which they call Akasha. It is the omnipresent, all-penetrating existence. Everything that has form, everything that is the result of combination, is evolved out of this Akasha. It is the Akasha that becomes the air, that becomes the liquids, that becomes the solids; it is the Akasha that becomes the sun, the earth, the moon, the stars, the comets; it is the Akasha that becomes the human body, the animal body, the plants, every form that we see, everything that can be sensed, everything that exists. It cannot be perceived; it is so subtle that it is beyond all ordinary perception; it can only be seen when it has become gross, has taken form. At the beginning of creation there is only this Akasha. At the end of the cycle the solids, the liquids, and the gases all melt into the Akasha again, and the next creation similarly proceeds out of this Akasha.
    By what power is this Akasha manufactured into this universe? By the power of Prana. Just as Akasha is the infinite, omnipresent material of this universe, so is this Prana the infinite, omnipresent manifesting power of this universe. At the beginning and at the end of a cycle everything becomes Akasha, and all the forces that are in the universe resolve back into the Prana; in the next cycle, out of this Prana is evolved everything that we call energy, everything that we call force. It is the Prana that is manifesting as motion; it is the Prana that is manifesting as gravitation, as magnetism. It is the Prana that is manifesting as the actions of the body, as the nerve currents, as thought force. From thought down to the lowest force, everything is but the manifestation of Prana. The sum total of all forces in the universe, mental or physical, when resolved back to their original state, is called Prana. “When there was neither aught nor naught, when darkness was covering darkness, what existed them? That Akasha existed without motion.” The physical motion of the Prana was stopped, but it existed all the same.
    Seems to me “physical” force is a subset of Prana, No? It is not pseudo-science or unscientific. The Prana concept goes beyond what physics has got a glimpse of.
    Tesla and Schroedinger to name a couple did not think this is unscientific.
    http://www.teslasociety.com/tesla_and_swami.htm. The article does later talk of free energy and much of which I do not agree with but my contention is science is bound by reason and the spiritual goes beyond reason BUT not unreasonable
    If you still disagree, let us agree to disagree on this.
    As far as awakening goes, I think i is dependant on self effort and divine grace.

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  9. Yogin
    According to the prophets of Israel, Akasha may be the source of all that is, but Akasha transcends all that is and is not to be confused with it. Thus, any yoga that could be called authentically Christian would differ with Vivekananda at this point.
    I am not disputing that everything we call energy or force proceeded from Akasha by the power of Prana, I agree that it does, what I am disputing is your claim that NON-PHYSIC[AL] forces are a focus of PHYSIC[S] research into unified field theories. You yourself admit that “The Prana concept goes beyond what physics has got a glimpse of.” Yeah, it’s because they can’t glimpse into it. Not with physics anyway. To go beyond physics, to go beyond science, is to delve into unscientific realms by definition. This does not make it bad, it just makes it something other than science. All I am saying is, respect that science has limitations and respect those limitations.
    As for the article about Telsa and Vivekananda, all I see is a huge load of interpretation leveraging off some very scanty evidence, which leaves me far from convinced that Telsa understood Vedic terminology in the same way Vivekananda did. But you also mention Schroedinger. Where has Schroedinger used Vedic terminology? Do you have any other links?
    As for your last comment, from a Christian perspective grace is not grace if self effort is placed on equal footing. Are you saying they are equal? Though we obviously disagree on some points I am interested in coming to a deeper understanding of your viewpoint.

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  10. Hi,
    Yoga is beneficial for the health in ways that modern science is just beginning to understand. Even though it has beenapplied with therapeutic intention for thousand of years, Yoga Therapy is only just now emerging as a discipline initself.
    More health care practitioners are starting to include yogic techniques in their approach to healing — andmore yoga teachers give a therapeutic intention to their teaching. People who have never tried yoga before are startingto consider including Yoga in their treatment plan.
    As science begins to document the importance of understanding the interrelation of all existing things, it looks to Yogawith an intrigued eye, for Yoga speaks Unity in every word. As yoga techniques are researched and new data is gathered,it becomes easier for science and the medical establishment to understand and accept the benefits of Yoga Therapy.Yet there is still not one consensual definition of the discipline.
    In order to arrive to an adequate definition and tocome up with proper standards for Yoga Therapy, it is crucial at this early stage to properly address some delicateprofessional and ethical issues. At the same time it is important to educatethegeneralpublic about Yoga Therapy’sbenefits and careful use.
    so this article will really helpful to me..

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  11. According to His Holiness Huzur Maharaj, the Second Most Revered Spiritual Head of Radhasoami Faith had stated : “Love or Force of attraction (i.e. the Force of Cohesion) is the Param Tattva or the chief ingredient of the creation, i.e. the entire creation has come into existence out of Love and is sustained by Love.” In scientific terminology this is known as Gravity.
    Based on my recent comments posted in various blogs , I have postulated a hypothesis. propose. Theoretcal Physics describes four fundamental forces of nature viz., weak nuclear force, strong nuclear force, electromagnetic force and force of gravity. Here we can present an analogy. Weak and strong nuclear forces represent pancha-bhutas or the five elements. Electromagnetic force represents force of current of mind which mainly works through sensory organs and force of gravity represents supra-causal state of Consciousness. We know that during advanced stage of practice of meditation and yoga pancha-bhutas or five elements merge into mind and mind into supra-causal state of Consciousness and ultimately Individual Consciousness merges into Cosmic Consciousness. This is the state of Perfect Bliss or Self-Realization. Likewise during the reverse process of Cosmic Evolution i.e. Perfect Dissolution of the Universe, weak and strong nuclear forces merge into electromagnetic force and electromangnetic force merges into force of gravity.
    In the beginning, the enetire Creation came into existence from this Single Force Current which later on manifested into many force currents during the process of Cosmic Evolution.
    Gravitation Force is the Ultimate Creator, this paper I presented at the 1st Int. Conf. on Revival of Traditional Yoga, held at The Lonavla Yoga Institute (India), Lonavla, Pune in 2006. The Abstract of this paper is given below:
    The Universe includes everything that exists. In the Universe there are billions and billions of stars. These stars are distributed in the space in huge clusters. They are held together by gravitation and are known as galaxies. Sun is also a star. Various members of the solar system are bound to it by gravitation force. Gravitation force is the ultimate cause of birth and death of galaxy, star and planets etc. Gravitation can be considered as the cause of various forms of animate and inanimate existence. Human form is superior to all other forms. Withdrawal of gravitational wave from some plane of action is called the death of that form. It can be assumed that gravitation force is ultimate creator. Source of it is ‘God’. Gravitational Field is the supreme soul (consciousness) and its innumerable points of action may be called as individual soul (consciousness). It acts through body and mind. Body is physical entity. Mind can be defined as the function of autonomic nervous system. Electromagnetic waves are its agents through which it works. This can be realized through the practice of meditation and yoga under qualified meditation instruction. This can remove misunderstanding between science and religion and amongst various religions. This is the gist of all religious teachings – past, present and future.

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  12. COMPREHENSIVE VIEW OF SCIENCE OF RELIGION (THEOLOGY)
    A Scientific Understanding of Meditation and Yoga
    In Bhagavad-Gita Lord SriKrishna says to Arjun:
    “I taught this immortal Yoga to Vivasvan (sun-god), Vivasvan conveyed it to Manu(his son), and Manu imparted it to (his son) Iksvaku. Thus transmitted to succession from father to son, Arjun, this Yoga remained known to the Rajarisis (royal sages). It has however long since disappeared from this earth. The same ancient Yoga has this day been imparted to you by Me, because you are My devotee and friend, and also because this is a supreme secret”.
    Yoga (Application) which was based on the control of the body physically and implied that a perfect control over the body and the senses led to knowledge of the ultimate reality. A detailed anatomical knowledge of the human body was necessary to the advancement of yoga and therefore those practising yoga had to keep in touch with medical knowledge. (Romila Thapar, A History of India, volume one).
    I suggest : Mind and brain are two distinct things. Brain is anatomical entity whereas mind is functional entity. Mind can be defined as the function of autonomic nervous system (ANS). It is claimed that mind can be brought under conscious control through the practice of meditation. But how? ANS is largely under hypothalamic control which is situated very close to optic chiasma (sixth chakra or ajna chakra). Protracted practice of concentration to meditate at this region brings functions of ANS say mind under one’s conscious control.
    Although Danah Zohar has coined the term Spiritual Quotient for the first time but she did not establish any mathematical relationship for this. Without establishing mathematical relationship spiritual intelligence can not be termed as spiritual quotient.
    Deepak Chopra has given a formula of spiritual quotient in terms of Deed (D) and Ego (E). According to Deepak Chopra S.Q.=D/E. According to him if E is ‘zero’ the S.Q. will be infinite. This appears to be very fascinating but it is highly abstract which can not be measured experimentally accurately and precisely. However, this formula has immense value to understand S.Q.
    I have also discovered a mathematical relationship for S.Q about eight years back in 2001. I have used physiological parameters which can be measured accurately and precisely and can be tested and verified experimentally. According to this formula S.Q. can be expressed as the ratio of parasympathetic dominance (P.D.) to sympathetic dominance (S.D.). Parasympathetic nervous system (PSNS) and sympathetic nervous system (SNS) are the two parts of the autonomic nervous system (ANS) which is largely under hypothalamic control. Hypothalamus is situated very close to the Sixth Chakra. During practice of meditation at Sixth Chakra these centres are galvanized which has very positive effect on practitioners spiritual, emotional, psychological and physical well being.
    According to this relationship spiritual quotient can be written as:
    S.Q. = P.D./S.D.
    If the value of S.Q. comes >1 (greater than one), it can be assumed that the person is moving towards self-realisation and if the value of S.Q. comes <1 (smaller than one) it can be predicted that the person is living under stress.
    This formula can be tested and verified experimentally.

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  13. Anirudh,
    I think you’ve missed the substance of this conversation on multiple fronts.
    Firstly, its about how we, as Christians, can Christianize yoga. Quoting the Bhagavad-Gita and Deepak Chopra is irrelevant to that task. If you disagree with the Christ-centered orientation of Christianity and Christian yoga just come out and say it. It’s okay to do that, and I think it would give us something more meaningful to talk about.
    Secondly, I am sorry to say, I find nothing remotely scientific in this “scientific” explaination. Lot’s of technobable, yes, but Scientific Creationists are good at that too. It’s not enough. Scientific jargon alone does not make something scientific. What does is diligent application of the scientific method. That would include, but not be limited to, peer review in a recognized scientific journal. Peer review by non-Hindus in other words. Again, I am not saying science has the last word, nor denying that we sometimes need to push beyond it, but when we do invoke science let’s respect it for what it is and is not.

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  14. Yoga is Yoga, neither Hindu, nor Muslim, nor Christian and so on. What I am saying is very scientific and very relevant to human life. Through God’s Grace I have further elaborated my views on S.Q. as below:
    There are various types of meditation available, which are being practiced by sages, saints, seers and others. The difference in various versions lies in the fact that these practice involve concentration to meditate at different centres known as Chakra in Yoga System. These chakras are, in fact, energy centres which correspond to nerve centres distributed along the spinal column and in brain region.
    Some practitioners start to meditate at Basic/Root Chakra (Muladhara) – situated at the base of spine, some at Heart Chakra (Anahata Chakra), some at Ajna Chakra – Optic Chiasma – Master Chakra and some from even higher centres situated in the brain region. Among all these types of meditation, practice at sixth chakra is considered to be the most ideal which brings about optimum results.
    Sixth Chakra is situated very close to hypothalamus. The hypothalamus is a portion of brain that contains a number of small nuclei with a variety of functions. One of the most important function of the hypothalamus is to link nervous system to the endocrine system via the pituitary glands.
    Autonomic nervous system (ANS) is largely under hypothalamic control. ANS consists of parasympathetic nervous system (PSNS) and sympathetic nervous system (SNS). PSNS is activated during meditative calm and during stress SNS is activated. When PSNS is activated, heart rate, breathing rate, blood pressure decreased. Supply of blood in the digestive tract increased. When SNS is activated heart rate, breathing rate, blood pressure increased. Supply of blood to the muscles and exterior organs increased and to the digestive tract decreased. In addition to these, there are many other parameters which can be compared. Parasympathetic Dominance (P.D.) is the state of PSNS activation and Sympathetic Dominance (S.D.) is the state of SNS activation. Instruments are available in medical science to measure these parameters.
    Now we can assign numerical value to each parameter. Then put the value in the formula for S.Q. and see the result. We can show the calculation as mentioned below:
    S.Q.= P.D./S.D. = Σ X / Σ Y
    Where X=x1+x2+x3+ …….
    And Y=y1+y2+y3+…….
    During PSNS activation (P.D.), we assign ‘1’ to each parameter (x1+x2+x3+…..) and ‘0’ to each parameter (y1+y2+y3+…..). During SNS activation (S.D.), we assign ‘1’ to each parameter (y1+y2+y3+…) and ‘0’ to each parameter (x1+x2+x3+….).
    By putting the numerical value, thus achieved, in the above formula for S.Q. we can calculate the Spiritual Quotient of an individual.

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  15. Insisting something is scientific doesn’t make it so. I have given you a clear way to make your case: show me where what you say has been accepted in a peer reviewed scientific journal. If it is scientific, this should be easy.
    As for yoga being religiously neutral, are you denying that kundalini yoga originated out of Hinduism?
    And you’ve avoided my central challenge: if you disagree with the Christ-centered orientation of Christianity and Christian yoga just come out and say it.

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  16. Kindly answer my one question. In modern times scientific discoveries are dominated by Christians and Jews. Should we say that science is Christian or Jew-centered orientation. Likewise in religious matters too if Hindu has discovered something or or Muslim or Christian, it belongs to all humanity.
    I am doing my work. I don’t bother for peer review for scientific journal.

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  17. Well that’s difficult because you’ve started with a statement, not a question, and it’s a very questionable statement to boot. Most atheists I’ve come across would say modern scientific discoveries are dominated by them, and not at all by Christians or Jews as you’re asserting. Moreover, many prominant scientists are not just non-Christian, they’re actually quite hostile to Christianity. Just take Richard Dawkins for example. He’s the most prominent biologist on the planet and he absolutely loaths Christianity, Judaism and Islam. That example alone calls your statement into question.
    But, well, lets do some wider checking. If you take a look at Scopes (usually a reliable source for myth busting) you’ll see there is considerable debate over this question – http://tiny.cc/8CXdA . I’d invite you to read the debate in full and use that as a launching point to peer reviewed articles, but if you don’t have the time here’s just one university article to read – http://tiny.cc/8l2Se – which identifies that up to 38% of natural scientists do NOT believe in God. And that figure doesn’t even include the Agnostics! Or Deists. Or Buddhists. Hardly a rousing endorsement of Christian “dominance”. Other surveys have gone even further.
    In any case, if the discovery is truly scientific, then the religion of the discoverer is irrelevant. Why? Because if the discovery is genuinely scientific it should reproducable by other scientists IRRESPECTIVE of their religion, or irreligion. It should be reproducable by Hindus, Atheists and Christians. So, it does not matter if something is discovered by a Hindu, what matters is whether or not it requires a Hindu to verify it. I am simply asking, show me ONE non-Hindu scientist whom has experimentally verified this formula or any of the other things you claim. If you NEED to be Hindu to verify it, then there’s a problem … from a scientific point of view. This is precisely the problem many scientistic have with Christian so-called Creation Science, that it hasn’t been varified by independent scientists.
    If you can’t be “bothered” with issues like independent verification this significantly undermines your claims to scientific authenticity.
    So, in answer to your question: no, true science is not Christian or Jew or Hindu centered orientation. True science is able to be verified by all. That is what I am asking you to demonstrate, that this “scientific” claim can be verified by others.
    Now, ready to answer my question yet? Do you disagree with the Christ-centered orientation of Christianity and Christian yoga? Third time lucky.

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  18. Mr.Matt Stone, develop scientific temper, then only you will be able to understand others view point clearly and precisely. However, I dont have any problem if you dont want to come out of your Christian mentality.
    I am saying someting and you are understanding something else.

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  19. Anirudh, well I agree with the last statement at least. You think you’re teaching science and I think you’re preaching pseudo-science. You’re right, our understandings are different. But as I’ve said, there is an easy way to prove me wrong if you are right. So, why don’t you?
    I realise you don’t like to hear this but I’m just calling you to intellectual honesty. I’m just saying, don’t call something scientific until you’re prepared to demonstrate HOW it’s scientific … how it is something more that spirituality masquerading as pseudo-science.
    I’m also asking you to respect the flow of this thread, which is Christianity and Yoga in conversation, and specifically, the possibility of the emergence of a genuine Christian yoga practice. I am happy if you answer in the negative, that you don’t see Yoga and Christianity as reconcilable. What I’m less impressed by is you’re consistant dodging of the original thread topic. As a consequence you come across as someone who’s more interested in monological preaching than dialogical conversation over the stated topic of Christian Yoga. Indeed, how am I to understand you deeper when you answer none of my questions? Is it that you’re just not used to being questioned?

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