Curious Christian

11 responses to “Pair to stand trial over ‘prayer session’ rapes”

1. 

   Eric

   2009-11-18

   http://www.coptic.org.au/modules/news/article.php?storyid=655
   They were from the Orthodox side of the Church, one of them allegedly pretending to be a senior Coptic leader. I’m not sure where Third Wave teaching fits in there.
   Earlier this year in SA a young person suffered abuse in the process of an exorcism, and that was apparently at the hands of honest Christians rather than swindlers.

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2. 

   Jarred

   2009-11-20

   And what does it say about (1) supposed “spiritual leaders” who charge $100,000.00 for a single act of service and (2) people who are desperate enough to pay it?

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3. 

   Jarred

   2009-11-20

   I think what’s scary to me is that (1) such so-called “spiritual leaders” would charge $100,000 for a single act of service and (2) there are people desperate enough to do so.

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4. 

   Janet

   2009-11-21

   That’s a really good question Matt! Most established denominations have pretty rigorous personal and spiritual formation processes and careful screening of potential ministers… sadly in part a response to having been left with the aftermath of toxic ministers in the past. No system is fool-proof, but I think these processes would catch most truly unhealthy individuals.
   When anyone can put a sign up on their house advertising themselves as a spiritual healer, what controls can you put on that (short of prosecuting AFTER things go wrong?)
   With Scientology hitting the headlines at present, the issue of abuse and secrecy and “what is a religion anyway under law”? are good questions for careful reflection.

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5. 

   Janet

   2009-11-21

   Tried to comment on this… trying again…

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6. 

   JarredH

   2009-11-21

   To me, spiritual leaders are elders. They’re people who have lived life and walked their spiritual path for a while. They’re people who have much experience and (hopefully) the insight to gain wisdom from that experience. They’re people who wish to share that experience, insight, and wisdom with the rest of us so that we might benefit from it as we gain our own experience, insight, and wisdom.

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7. 

   Steve Hayes

   2009-11-22

   Third Wave curse teaching?
   That’s a new one.

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8. 

   Jarred

   2009-11-23

   Janet: I admit that this is my Pagan bias showing up to some degree, but I personally think that the question of what controls to put on spiritual leaders and spiritual healers is the wrong question. In fact, I’d go so far as to suggest that the question is mired in the same basic problem that allows abusers to pose as spiritual leaders and spiritual healers: power and control is abdicated by the individual seeking help and placed in someone else’s hands. Whether that someone else is an abusive spiritual leader or some “controlling agency” charged with the task of making sure spiritual leaders are legit makes little difference to me. They’re both problematic.
   To me, the better solution is to empower individuals and teach them the warning signs to look for. Show them what a good spiritual leader looks like and what an abuser posing as one looks like. Help them to see the difference. That way when they do seek out help, they are equipped to discern for themselves the quality of help they’re about to receive and the character of the person they’re considering to receive it from.

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9. 

   Matt Stone

   2009-11-23

   My presumption that Third Wave teaching might have something to do with this appears to have been wrong in light of the further evidence Eric found. But in a way this makes the elder question even sharper. The Orthodox church has a far more formal structure than the Charismatic church, yet these women were still conned. In a way that’s even more disturbing. Jarred, the question is, how do novices tell a true elder from a poser?

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10. 

    JarredH

    2009-11-24

    Matt, that’s a huge matter of discussion and there’s no simple answer that can be put into a single comment. However, I’d offer the following insights.
    The first thing to remember is that like any human relationship, a relationship with an elder, spiritual leader, or spiritual healer is something that has to be developed and built over time. Rushing that process simply because the other person is supposed to be a spiritual leader is a mistake. And if a supposed leader is trying to push you to rush that process, that’s the very first warning sign.
    Other things to look for is whether said person is trying to make you dependent on them, or empower/equip you to do your own thing. This can be overt, or it can be subtle. Things to look for include playing off your fears, making promises that only they can (supposedly) deliver, and making promises that are outrageous. Spiritual leaders are not superheroes, don’t have superpowers, and shouldn’t sound like they are. If they do sound like they are, that’s a pretty bad sign.
    Another thing to look for is how concerned such a person is for your safety and comfort. Are they asking you to do things that put yourself at risk or in a particularly vulnerable position? That’s usually a bad sign.

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11. 

    Matt Stone

    2009-11-24

    Jarred, that gels very much with the teaching of the apostles.
    In his instructions to Timothy, the apostle Paul writes: “Now the overseer must be above reproach … self-controlled, respectable, hospitable … not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money … He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited … He must also have a good reputation with outsiders…”
    In my experience though, many seekers are lazy and, rather than taking the time to observe these things for themselves, accept institutional commissionings or peer endorsements as a way of bypassing the process.

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