Curious Christian

Reflections on culture, nature, and spirituality from a Christian perspective

Queen save the God?

Published by

Matt Stone

2011-01-27

When we trust the state for the preservation of the church, have we got things back the front?

I always feel uncomfortable when I hear Christians thanking God for Christendom, for a government that allows them to worship “freely”, in ways which suggest the health of the church is dependent on that.

For to be honest, from my reading of history, Christian witness is often more effective (and it’s worship more faithful) in countries that aren’t free. God doesn’t need our governments. Our governments need God. What we need to ask God for instead is faithful, culture transforming churches. Let us thank God for churches that aren’t domesticated and sanitized by Faustian bargains with society but retain their prophetic edge.

Tags Politics

8 responses to “Queen save the God?”

Dan Danforth

2011-01-28

I wonder what a government would look like if it acknowledged it’s need for God?

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Matt Stone

2011-01-28

Kingdom of God? That would mean moving beyond mere acknowledgement through, to actually accepting Jesus as Lord.

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John

2011-01-28

Meanwhile four billion living-breathing-felling human beings, and indeed all of the heart-sensitive non-human beings on this planet are not Christians.
So where do they stand in relation to your statement re Jesus as Lord?
Plus if you are at all familiar with now time religious politics you will find that some/most/all of the leading vectors of the now universal insanity and nastiness are right-wing Christians.

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Kalessin

2011-01-28

So John said,
some/most/all of the leading vectors of the now universal insanity and nastiness are right-wing Christians
And Matt replied in advance,
What we need to ask God for instead is faithful, culture transforming churches. Let us thank God for churches that aren’t domesticated and sanitized by Faustian bargains with society but retain their prophetic edge.
Prophetic edge, indeed.
On the subject of non-Christians and animals,
So where do they stand in relation to your statement re Jesus as Lord?
Under secular governments if they are fortunate. Would you agree that the New Testament favors secular government and was a principal factor in it’s establishment?
Also, if you think animals are non-Christian, then it seems unlikely that you’ve come to terms with theism generally (unless you’re equating it with the right-wing nasties). What would ‘Christian’ mean for an animal?

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Jarred

2011-01-29

“Would you agree that the New Testament favors secular government and was a principal factor in it’s establishment?”
I’m not John, but I would like to go on record as saying that I’m not sure I’d agree with that assessment. I wouldn’t strongly disagree with it, either, mind you.
It’s been a while since I’ve done any serious reading of the New Testament and what I did read was incomplete, but from my limited and mostly likely faulty memories, it seems to me that the New Testament was largely disinterested in government altogether rather than in favor of one kind of government or another. When government was mentioned at all, it seemed to be mostly in passing as if to acknowledge its existence and how to deal with it, then to move on as if to say, “but here’s what REALLY matters.”
I don’t take that as the same thing as an endorsement of secular government. I think one might come to the conclusion, based on what the New Testament points out as important and unimportant, that a secular government is probably the best route. However, that takes a good bit of inference, interpretation, and reasoning out application. Too much for me to just say, “yeah, that’s what the New Testament promotes.”

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Matt Stone

2011-02-01

Interesting reflections. I’m sympathetic much of what been said above, but with some slight twists. Firstly, I think Jarred’s right, that the New Testament doesn’t strongly endorse any system, including secular government. In fact I think the kingdom of God casts a critical shadow over all kingdom’s of humanity.
But that being said, being for the dictatorship of love is hardly an apolitical stance. So I wouldn’t say the New Testament was disinterested in government per se. Just disinterested in governments that prop themselves up with threats of death.
But, insofar as secular governments allow freedom of religion, and underscore the voluntary nature of Christian commitment, I’d personally prefer a secular government to some of the alternatives.

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Don Ibbitson

2011-02-01

It’s an interesting twist to something I give thanks to the Lord periodically… that I live in a country where I can worship free from fear of being arrested for exercising my faith. How long that stay’s true remains to be seen..

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Matt Stone

2011-02-01

Ah, but consider this Don: What if we considered worship to entail nonviolent witness against national violence? Christians do get arrested for that, here in Australia, and America. It suggests our Western freedoms are contingent on us not being “too” prophetic.

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